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Gilliam vs Duessel and Joshua: Swordmaster or Assassin


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Poll: Who's better? Gilliam or Duessel? And should Joshua be a SM or Assassin? (18 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's better? Gilliam or Duessel? And should Joshua be a SM or Assassin?

  1. Gilliam and SM (6 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. Gilliam and Assassin (2 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  3. Duessel and SM (4 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  4. Duessel and Assassin (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Gilliam and screw Josh. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Duessel and screw Josh. (1 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  7. They both suck, and SM. (1 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  8. They both suck, and Assassin. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Lol, please. (4 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

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#21 Zepher Tensho

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (Hawk @ Apr 30 2011, 01:39 PM)
ANNNNND Hi guize.

Gilliam's "lolmove" can be fixed with boots. Orwhateverthefu*kthey'recalledtheseday.
And we're talking about Gilliam as a General. Obv Gilliam GK=Duessel GK more or less.


I did that once. General with the move of a cav = lulz
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#22 Rujio

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 05:03 PM

Wyvern Lord/Paladin with 10 MOV= more lulzy

It doesn't matter that the maps aren't huge, you've got a ton of awesome mounted units. If you're entire party is moving 7/8 squares a turn, 5/6 MOV isn't enough late game. Early game, You'ge still got Franz, Vanessa, and Seth with 7/8 and everyone else with 5 to Gill's 4. He will fall behind unless you make an effort to keep him on the front line.
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#23 Zepher Tensho

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:38 PM

You got a point. Thats why I use Gilliam the first few chapters then just....stop using him XD
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#24 Hawk

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:43 PM

BUT GENERAL WITH 7 MOVE IS HAWT
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#25 Green

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:31 PM

Its a waste of boots though

#26 Rujio

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:50 AM

Subjectively, someone in that suit of armor running at the same speed as a horse is indeed awesome. Objectively, though, giving the horse boots (wut?) is better. Unless you have some really strange criteria for your run...
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#27 raigntk

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 02:05 AM

i chose gilliam and joshua as swordmaster.

as for gilliams lack of movement it sucks yes but hes honestly worth the effort to keep around (unless you'd rather just use amelia as a general)
either way though i use the swift sole on my general because there is no need to put it on anyone else. that and the fact that it will help me make sure my wall stays on the front lines

as for joshua every time i made him a swordmaster or an assassin swordmaster always turned out better for him
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#28 Rujio

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 02:31 AM

QUOTE (raigntk @ May 11 2011, 07:05 PM)


as for gilliams lack of movement it sucks yes but hes honestly worth the effort to keep around (unless you'd rather just use amelia as a general)
either way though i use the swift sole on my general because there is no need to put it on anyone else. that and the fact that it will help me make sure my wall stays on the front lines

as for joshua every time i made him a swordmaster or an assassin swordmaster always turned out better for him

Why? I can put Gill up there and never worry about him dieing because it takes 20 hits... or I can put anyone else up there and not worry because it takes 10 hits but they only have like a 30% chance max to get hurt anyways. On average, Gilliam isn't really more durable than anyone else because he's much more likely to get hit.
General Amelia? No. Just in case Wendy didn't suck enough, let's make her join farther into a shorter game AND take off 10 levels. Then rename her Amelia.
You get more out of other people, though. The flexibility a 10 MOV flier gives you is huge, while putting it on Gilliam only lets you keep your guy who isn't really more durable than anyone else and has worse offense because he can't double reliably with the rest of your units.

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#29 raigntk

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 04:17 PM

QUOTE (Rujio @ May 11 2011, 09:31 PM)
Why? I can put Gill up there and never worry about him dieing because it takes 20 hits... or I can put anyone else up there and not worry because it takes 10 hits but they only have like a 30% chance max to get hurt anyways. On average, Gilliam isn't really more durable than anyone else because he's much more likely to get hit.
General Amelia? No. Just in case Wendy didn't suck enough, let's make her join farther into a shorter game AND take off 10 levels. Then rename her Amelia.
You get more out of other people, though. The flexibility a 10 MOV flier gives you is huge, while putting it on Gilliam only lets you keep your guy who isn't really more durable than anyone else and has worse offense because he can't double reliably with the rest of your units.


hmm true enough (although i honestly have never really used the boots xD )
as for gilliam hes always turned out great for me (no rng abuse either) only problem is the usual mages (but they never get the chance anyways lol)
Why the hate on amelia though? shes a great unit reguardless of what class you make her and I have never had bad stat turnouts for her. I have yet to get to play any of the trainee's as their super classes (for some reason it never counted my erika or ephy playthrough), plus supports for her are great.

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#30 Germanicus

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 08:46 PM

Dusell and SM, most definitely. Sorry general fans, but when something has the word "great" in front of it, you're about to get majorly raped.

#31 raigntk

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 10:43 PM

QUOTE (Germanicus @ May 12 2011, 03:46 PM)
Dusell and SM, most definitely. Sorry general fans, but when something has the word "great" in front of it, you're about to get majorly raped.



lol that great should be labeled pathetic on some of the great knights you can have.
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#32 SmashedFish

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 10:58 PM

QUOTE (raigntk @ May 12 2011, 05:43 PM)
QUOTE (Germanicus @ May 12 2011, 03:46 PM)
Dusell and SM, most definitely. Sorry general fans, but when something has the word "great" in front of it, you're about to get majorly raped.

lol that great should be labeled pathetic on some of the great knights you can have.

Indeed it should.
I said Gilliam > Duessel because D. is a prepromote and G> is absolutely amazing with enough work, and Josh as a Swordmaster because he's an iron wall of pwn as one. Watch out for Swordreavers though.

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#33 Rujio

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 12:20 AM

QUOTE (raigntk @ May 12 2011, 09:17 AM)

as for gilliam hes always turned out great for me (no rng abuse either) only problem is the usual mages (but they never get the chance anyways lol)
Why the hate on amelia though? shes a great unit reguardless of what class you make her and I have never had bad stat turnouts for her. I have yet to get to play any of the trainee's as their super classes (for some reason it never counted my erika or ephy playthrough), plus supports for her are great.

His speed sucks. Horribly. He struggles to double attack just about anything. Meanwhile, everyone else is just as hard to kill (or harder maybe) but can move farther and have significantly better offense.

Amelia? Well, first off, the Tower and Ruins are generally ignored in objective discussion, so her coming in with 4 MOV and taking like four thousand hits to kill and only hitting like 50% of the time says that she sucks horribly. But even if you DO count the tower, she just requires you to put more effort into her than any other unit and in the end you don't get anything better out of it. And for even less time than many units.

QUOTE
lol that great should be labeled pathetic on some of the great knights you can have.

Like? List of possible great knights: Franz, Forde, Kyle, Amelia, Duessel, Gilliam. The ones I might label pathetic? MAYBE Gilliam (pathetic's a strong word) and Amelia. That said, Paladin is better for all of them that can go paladin...

QUOTE
I said Gilliam > Duessel because D. is a prepromote and G> is absolutely amazing with enough work,

How is being a prepromote bad? Other than generally meaning that you don't need to put the work into the unit to get someone good/great?

Amazing with enough work?

20/1 GK Gilliam (Which is, by the way, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY higher than he should be for Ephraim's route and higher than he should be for Eirika's) compared to base Duessel.
Duessel wins: maybe 1 SKL, 2 SPD, 2 RES, weapon levels by a lot. Especially access to Garm. +5 SPD is awesome. And I think he wins CON, too.
Gilliam wins: 1 HP, 1 STR, 3 DEF.

Let's look at the advantages these give: 1 SKL... nothing. 2 SPD is huge, though. Double attacking is significant advantage. 2 RES? Meh. CON? More SPD advantages. Weapon ranks? More damage and access to GArm and awesome +5 SPD. Gilliam's: 1 HP lol. 1 STR- because this is a HUGE problem of Duessel's/sarcasm. Besides, Duessel can use his ranks to more than compensate. 3 DEF- again, Duessel really struggles here... or not.

This also brings up the question of when Gill can promote. Forde, Kyle, and Franz are all much better Knight's Crest candidates and, for now, there are only so many.

And even if you don't compare him to Duessel (who still wins after we give Gilliam way more than he should get) he still falls behind the rest of your units (well, I guess he won't fall behind ALL teams as a GK in chapter 10... but that's a little much) and fails to offer any sort of decent offense if he gets to the front lines
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#34 raigntk

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 12:35 AM

@rujio

well mainly 3 at least imo are pathetic great knights (mainly due to the fact that they are better off being their other class) would be Franz, Forde, and Gilliam. None of them have ever turned out better as a gk than as their other promote has.

as for amelia why bother doing tower runs when (if i remember correctly) you can just arena abuse her a chapter or two later
only reason most people don't arena abuse or tower abuse is because they don't have the patience to do so (even though it makes the game that much easier)

as for who to promte first gilliam should be 3rd promote at best (least for me) also why in the world would you want to give garm to anyone other than ross? every time i've used garm on someone else it never did as good. espically with that sexy luck ross has going for him (with or without being a berserker). granted i do know he lacks a tad bit to much at times in the skill department but then again that doesnt matter much if hes going around criting everything in site.

in the end of all things though it all comes down to who you like to play as or who you like to play as with the best supports for them
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#35 Rujio

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 01:11 AM

QUOTE (raigntk @ May 12 2011, 05:35 PM)
@rujio

well mainly 3 at least imo are pathetic great knights (mainly due to the fact that they are better off being their other class) would be Franz, Forde, and Gilliam. None of them have ever turned out better as a gk than as their other promote has.

True. I wouldn't call them "pathetic" for that, but yes, GK is generally not worth going to.
QUOTE

as for amelia why bother doing tower runs when (if i remember correctly) you can just arena abuse her a chapter or two later
only reason most people don't arena abuse or tower abuse is because they don't have the patience to do so (even though it makes the game that much easier)

Tower is infinitely safer and gets her better sooner.
Generally Tower/Arena abusing is not assumed since it makes the game boring while you do it and boring after you do it to a lot of people.
QUOTE

as for who to promte first gilliam should be 3rd promote at best (least for me) also why in the world would you want to give garm to anyone other than ross? every time i've used garm on someone else it never did as good. espically with that sexy luck ross has going for him (with or without being a berserker). granted i do know he lacks a tad bit to much at times in the skill department but then again that doesnt matter much if hes going around criting everything in site.

Ross isn't super great or anything, though, so we can't guarantee he's there. Also Ross is slightly faster, so he doesn't get as much from it. Plus he's got a TON of strength, so he doesn't need the extra power as often as Duessel will near the end of the game. And of course there's the option to let them both have it sometimes.

He isn't critting too much with Garm, either. A Killer Axe gives him 45 before you count in his SKL as a berzerker.
QUOTE

in the end of all things though it all comes down to who you like to play as or who you like to play as with the best supports for them

True. What I'm saying is all trying to look at it objectively. I mean, I enjoy using Amelia myself, but I'll be the first to say she's probably the worst unit in the game.

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#36 SmashedFish

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 01:12 AM

I'm going to preface tis by admitting that I Tower and Ruins abused all my units when I finished the game for multiplayer and for Creature Campaign. I'm basing my opinions off that, because in my opinion, a fully leveled unit, regardless of how it was leveled, is a decent representative of that unit.

[QUOTE=Rujio,May 12 2011, 07:20 PM][QUOTE=raigntk,May 12 2011, 09:17 AM]
Amelia?... But even if you DO count the tower, she just requires you to put more effort into her than any other unit and in the end you don't get anything better out of it. And for even less time than many units.[/quote]
Interestingly enough, she ended up with slightly higher Attack, Res, and Speed (I think) than my Gilliam, and of course higher luck too because trainees rape at luck. It was kinda cool to have a slightly more offensive general, but I ended up never using her.

[quote][QUOTE]lol that great should be labeled pathetic on some of the great knights you can have. [/QUOTE]
Like? List of possible great knights: Franz, Forde, Kyle, Amelia, Duessel, Gilliam. The ones I might label pathetic? MAYBE Gilliam (pathetic's a strong word) and Amelia. That said, Paladin is better for all of them that can go paladin...[/quote]
I didn't get any great knights but Kyle because I didn't think I'd need 'em. My opinion of Duessel? He's fine, but nothing special. Perhaps low 2nd tier. Keeping that in mind, I thought less of GK Kyle than Duessel.

[quote][QUOTE]I said Gilliam > Duessel because D. is a prepromote and G> is absolutely amazing with enough work,[/QUOTE]
How is being a prepromote bad? Other than generally meaning that you don't need to put the work into the unit to get someone good/great?

Amazing with enough work?

20/1 GK Gilliam (Which is, by the way, WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY higher than he should be for Ephraim's route and higher than he should be for Eirika's) compared to base Duessel.
Duessel wins: maybe 1 SKL, 2 SPD, 2 RES, weapon levels by a lot. Especially access to Garm. +5 SPD is awesome. And I think he wins CON, too.
Gilliam wins: 1 HP, 1 STR, 3 DEF.[/quote]

True though that may be, what are they when Duessel's at 20 and Gilliam at 20/20? I honestly have no clue myself, this is an honest question. Also, I tend to use other, more mobile units for attacking and Gilliam for a wall, and my views of the two are based on Duessel as a frontliner and Gilliam as a wall.

[quote]This also brings up the question of when Gill can promote. Forde, Kyle, and Franz are all much better Knight's Crest candidates and, for now, there are only so many.[/quote]

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I 20/20'd each of them; Franz and Forde as paladins and Kyle as a GK (which I already went over). Forde ended up being the exact same as Seth, except for two higher Skill. Franz had slightly better Attack and Res than Seth, if memory serves, but lower or same everything else.

[quote]And even if you don't compare him to Duessel (who still wins after we give Gilliam way more than he should get) he still falls behind the rest of your units (well, I guess he won't fall behind ALL teams as a GK in chapter 10... but that's a little much) and fails to offer any sort of decent offense if he gets to the front lines[/QUOTE]
Again, this isn't really a big deal for me because A) mine only ever frontlines as a wall and cool.gif he doesn't get to the frontlines ever, due to his move.

Not sure why no quotes but eh.

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#37 raigntk

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 01:53 AM

lmao at that picture

also i gota say, kinda nice how nobody is complaining about joshua being a sm lol
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#38 SmashedFish

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 10:08 AM

Oh, alright. I'll do that then.

Joshua as an Assassin:
+ Able to instakill with ability
- Lower stats

Joshua as a Swordmaster:
+ Able to instakill with his attack
+ +15% crit
+ Higher stats (besides the added crit)

That's more or less the basics of it. I might be wrong here or there but eh.

Also, consider supports. Lv. 3 support with Natasha + standing next to eachother + Josh attacks almost anything with an iron sword = roughly 70% crit chance. tongue.gif

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#39 Rujio

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 12:54 PM

All of what you're saying makes sense for your playstyle.

I don't know that Lethality counts for much. What doesn't he kill in 3 hits anyways that a crit won't take out? Maybe a few bosses, but then, Lethality can't activate on them anyways.
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